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PostSubject: Tier List Scoring Format   Tier List Scoring Format Clock14Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:22 am

This is the format used for scoring individual characters in the tier list. It will be implemented soon, but we need input from the community.

UPDATED SCORING FORMAT

* every element being scored in the format below will be referred to as a "move".
* "/" means "out of"


The purpose of this ranking format is to calculate an overall evaluation of a character's moveset from a strictly technical, non-metagaming standpoint. All aspects of every move can be considered. (startup/cooldown time, damage, range, priority, tracking, hitstun, SB, etc.).
Supports are NOT included.


I have been thinking on how to improve this format and this is the refined version. It is an update from the previous version, because it ranked Combos/Tilt, Jutsu/Kunai and Ougi/Awakenings according to each other. In other words, if Combos was ranked /10, it would automatically make tilt /5. This update fixes that.

Combos: /5 or /10
Tilt: /5 or 10
Kunai: /5 or /10
Jutsu: /5 or /10
Ougi: /5 or /10
Awakening: /5 or /10
(3 of the above are /10, 3 are /5, /45 combined)
Grab: /5
Mobility: /5
Items: /5
+Bonus: /3 (Anything not included above (ie puppets))
Total: /60


Across the entire spectrum of characters, there are characters that have either Combos, Tilt, Jutsu, Kunai, Ougi and awakening as their most important characteristics in their moveset for gameplay. Having 3 of the 6 moves ranked /10 ensures that a character will be able to have his most important moves ranked out of 10, ensuring that a character will get each move scored accordingly and attributing the right amount towards their total.

~"/5 or /10 explained"

The "/5 or /10" format is being used for Combos, Tilt, Kunai, Jutsu, Ougi and Awakening because different moves are more important to different characters. It is to ensure that every character gets an accurate amount of points depending on how important a move is to their entire play.

For example: Awakenings. Naruto has the amazing 9 tails awakening. Ino has the rubish standard awakening. Does that in itself make Naruto a better character? No. My reasoning is that to a character like Naruto, the awakening is more important to him as a whole character. For Ino, there usually isn't much of a reason to awaken, so it shouldn't be scored out of as many points as Naruto because it isn't as much of an important factor out of Ino's entire moveset.

This applies to all moves. Another example: Shikamaru has very good Kunai and Ougi, but his Jutsu isn't nearly as useful. Therefore, his Kunai and Ougi should attribute more to his total score than his Jutsu.

* /5 and /10 are simply the current values and are subject to change.


It is determined whether a move is rated /5 or /10 by the score of the move. Highest 3 scores get /10, lowest get /5.

Example wrote:
Character X
Bad combos (4/10)
Good Tilt (8/10)
Good Kunai (8/10)
Great Jutsu (10/10)
Bad Ougi (4/10)
Bad Awakening (2/10)

The result would be as follows:

Example continued wrote:
Character X
Combos: 2/5
Tilt: 8/10
Kunai: 8/10
Jutsu: 10/10
Ougi: 2/5
Awakening: 1/5
* Converting from /10 to /5 is unbelievable simple, don't complain.

*As Razeyurstyle pointed out, combos often aren't important in gameplay with many characters. In which case, combos would be ranked /5 rather than /10, along with 2 other moves.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for Grab, Mobility and Items, I believe that it is easy to agree that they are very similar in terms of importance from character to character, so they have no varying number to be ranked out of.

Please post comments, opinions, questions and suggestions here.


Last edited by Bobroham on Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:34 pm; edited 19 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Tier List Scoring Format   Tier List Scoring Format Clock14Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:25 am

Reserved.
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PostSubject: Re: Tier List Scoring Format   Tier List Scoring Format Clock14Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:43 am

What about long ranged characters that have their combos on their shurikens? (Deidara, Shino, Ten ten, Temari) are their shurikens combos and viceversa? Or not?
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PostSubject: Re: Tier List Scoring Format   Tier List Scoring Format Clock14Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:47 am

That will be evaluated under Kunai.

Every character including the ranged characters have standard ground and air melee combos.
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PostSubject: Re: Tier List Scoring Format   Tier List Scoring Format Clock14Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:49 pm

This whole system is flawed. The fact that you have the 5 and 10 to be interchangeable means that you are incorporating metagame into it. Every number should be the same for everyone.

Imo you should do it like this:

Chakra actions are worth more than non chakra actions
U1 and U2 are worth more than everything else
items and kunai have the least worth
There should not be a bonus.
Take away mobility, its a useless category

If there is no constant, then all the data is meaningless.

This is my take on how I think this scoring format should be done.

U2: x/20 (Startup Lag, Whif Lag, Hitbox, Frames, Reach, Cinematic Data) *Frames: Like hero frames, or any other frame data.
U1: x/15 (Startup Lag, Whif Lag, Hitbox, Frames, Reach, Cinematic Data)
Awakening: x/10 (I dont think this needs explantion)
cKunai: x/5 (Damage, Count, Effects, Tracking)
Grab: x/5 (Startup Lag, Whif Lag, Hitbox, Frames, Reach, Cinematic Data)
Combos: x/5 (Hit Count, Hit Box, Reach, Cinematic Data) *Includes tilt
Kunai: x/3 (Damage, Count, Effects, Tracking)
Items: x/3 (Type, Count, Effect, Item Combo) *Item combinations, like an atk up pill and a def dwn tag.

Of course this will not determine actual character placement. Just some information to fall back on when discussing the abilities of a certain character. For example, a character with a low overall score does not reflect a low placement on the tier list.

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Tier List Scoring Format Sakurasig
ab
RΛÐÏUS
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PostSubject: Re: Tier List Scoring Format   Tier List Scoring Format Clock14Fri Feb 18, 2011 10:58 pm

tl;dr

Tier scoring for a game like this should be more open discussion and not rely on numbers because of the ridiculous amount of variables in any 3d fighter, let alone one as big as this.
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PostSubject: Re: Tier List Scoring Format   Tier List Scoring Format Clock14Sat Feb 19, 2011 12:03 am

/sigh\

I think forget scoring and just place them wherever, dependong on disscussion. Like what Lumi said. Exactly like Lumi said.
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PostSubject: Re: Tier List Scoring Format   Tier List Scoring Format Clock14Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:07 am

OK Bob, You told me something in the chat that I didn't notice in the OP.

But why would you have the 5 or 10 rule for Combos, Jutsu, Tilt, Ougi, Kunai, Awakening only.
What makes these the special ones to choose from. Why not Grabs, or Items. Some people have very fast grabs. And one of sakura's strongest points is her Items. She has a def dwns, guard breaks, fire tags, and her up item immediately restores her awakening.

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Tier List Scoring Format Sakurasig
ab
RΛÐÏUS
There's always free cheddar in a mousetrap...its a deal.
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PostSubject: Re: Tier List Scoring Format   Tier List Scoring Format Clock14Sat Feb 19, 2011 3:35 am

[DJ] wrote:
OK Bob, You told me something in the chat that I didn't notice in the OP.

But why would you have the 5 or 10 rule for Combos, Jutsu, Tilt, Ougi, Kunai, Awakening only.
What makes these the special ones to choose from. Why not Grabs, or Items. Some people have very fast grabs. And one of sakura's strongest points is her Items. She has a def dwns, guard breaks, fire tags, and her up item immediately restores her awakening.

If you want, it wouldn't be a problem putting grabs/items into the /5 or /10 rule, but honestly even the fastest grabs and best items would not be worth anywhere near 10/60, and I think 5 points for the best items/grabs should be plenty in every case. Of course, the worst items and grabs would get 1/5.

Obviously, this is only my opinion but changes can always be made.
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PostSubject: Re: Tier List Scoring Format   Tier List Scoring Format Clock14Sun Feb 20, 2011 1:07 am

What about Kakashi's grab? His grab makes a vital part of his strategy.

And Kakashi's items. VERY OFTEN I have RELIED on an atk \/ tag to score a U2 and won.
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